The MBoard

Cause our boy Mega Man's in it of course.

Anyways  new remix confirmed:  Mega Man 4 Medley (Dive Man/Skull Man)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwG4fwTK3XE

Anyways, what are your hopes for characters, stages, items, music, etc.

The only other character I want is King K. Rool, if only to get more DK representation. 

I think either of them are ok (not great, but ok), but they just don't run into each other well.  They just kind of stop and then start the next tune.  I don't care for that in a medly.  Also they didn't even have the entire Skull Man part.

I think it would have been better to do them individually, like Spark Man and Air Man's from Smash 4.

The only other character I want is King K. Rool, if only to get more DK representation. 

I'm absolutely with that.

Anyways, what are your hopes for characters, stages, items, music, etc.

For other new characters... I keep seeing people say like Shovel Knight and other newer franchises that have indie cred, but I don't think that's a good idea at all. In fact I don't really love going overboard with 3rd party characters in the first place.

It's cool once in a while, like Pac-Man and Sonic fit in well enough, but a part of the appeal for Smash was always the celebration of Nintendo's fantastic IP's/history. That's why Mr. Game & Watch was such a great addition. I think if they're going to keep adding non-Nintendo characters they should all be certified CLASSICS, and a lot of this new stuff isn't there yet.

For a 3rd party character, I'm gonna stick with the one I say with every new Smash: I'm burning that candle for Dig Dug (aka Taizo Hori). Nintendo already worked with Namco to get Pac-Man in, and I think he could fit in gameplay-wise and aesthetically. Nitendo has also been the only company doing anything with the character for years, as they released Dig Dug games on DS and re-released Mr. Driller games (featuring Dig Dug's son) too. Mr. Driller (aka Susumu Hori) could be an alternate costume/echo fighter for Dig Dug as well. I wrote a probably way too long pitch for this when Nintendo had that thing for Smash 4 where you write in what new character you'd like to see. They actually had Pookas in Smash 4's single player, which gave me hope that he'd be unlockable.

For a 1st party character, Nintendo should probably at least consider Ribbon Girl or  Min Min from ARMS. Those two are probably most popular characters in the game (as far as I know) and you'd be adding a character with entirely unique gameplay compared to the other characters. I see 'em working somewhat like Dhalsim does in Street Fighter, and there isn't really an extendo-character like that in Smash as of yet. Plus, from what I hear, the user base of ARMS saw a significant drop off when Splatoon 2 was released. I think that would a smart way to refresh some public interest in the property before a possible full sequel.

They just kind of stop and then start the next tune.  I don't care for that in a medly.

Agreed. In fact it's the antithesis of a medley.

For a 1st party character, Nintendo should probably at least consider Ribbon Girl or  Min Min from ARMS. Those two are probably most popular characters in the game (as far as I know) and you'd be adding a character with entirely unique gameplay compared to the other characters. I see 'em working somewhat like Dhalsim does in Street Fighter, and there isn't really an extendo-character like that in Smash as of yet. Plus, from what I hear, the user base of ARMS saw a significant drop off when Splatoon 2 was released. I think that would a smart way to refresh some public interest in the property before a possible full sequel.

Min Min is a cute, but Twintell has "dat ass" going for her.  I do think an ARMS rep would be great though.  Also, we need Wonder Red from Wonderful 101.  That's a great game.  A Splatoon rep was on my list as well, but they're in now so that fixes that.

But my wish of wishes would be for Ganon to get in.  Not that #####ing Gannondorf #####, but blue pig Ganon.  the REAL #####ING GANON.  His iconic LttP version would be my pick for it.  It was too over designed in OoT.  He has that bad ass spear and his triforce of power is MAXIMUM!

As for 3rd party characters, I'm really more or less satisfied with what we have already.  I still would prefer X/Zero as an additional Mega Man Rep, but  I'm ok with what we have.  Another 3rd party I would like as a "HOLY ##### WHAT THE ##### NINTENDO!?" choice is the Doom Marine.  It's not hard to work a moveset that involves non-realistic guns.

Doom Guy would be fantastic.  But as far as classic Nintendo Legacy 3rd party, we still need Simon Belmont.

Indeed.  And with Mother Brain as an assist trophy they need to include King Hippo, The Eggplant Wizard as assist trophies.

King Hippo would be cool. I don’t see how the Doom character would fit in any way.

How would he fit in?  RIP AND TEAR RIP AND TEAR!  He'll make room.

Like I said, just focus on his non realistic weapons. 

Most of his standard attacks, air attacks, and throws would be melee like punches and kicks.  His grab could be grabbing the opponent (most of the opponents by the neck) and his throws could be based on his glory kill animations (F throw would be a punch followed by a boot)

His smash attacks would utilize the chainsaw.  His standard special is the Plasma Rifle (Stun Mod), his Forward special is the Heavy Assault Rifle (Micro Missles Mod)  His up special is Rocket Jump (If used on the ground it damages the Doom marine, but in the air it gives another boost of air and would act as a meteor smash like Mega Man's hard knuckle), and his down smash is the Gauss Cannon (Siege Mode Mod)

Final Smash would have course be the BFG9000.

Costumes are original PC Doom 1/2 (Default) & Doom 2016.

Taunts would be Cracking knuckles, looking at a rabbit's foot, and reloading a shotgun.

If anyone can come up with a better idea, I'd love to hear it.

I'd second Ganon. I don't think I ever even thought of that before. Though I like both the OOT and the original Ganon. But hell, if we can have both Young Link and Toon Link, I guess I've no problem with having both of them.

I'm already sold on Smash, it looks awesome. As to whether I'll actually play it is another thing.

I don't really think Doom guy's weapon selection is the issue. I just don't see how anything about him fits the tone or gameplay of Smash Bros. itself, you would basically have to create moves he doesn't do in DOOM to make him playable and there's no way he's grabbing people by the necks and doing brutal bloody kills in this rated E 10+ video game. And if he's not doing brutal kills, what's the point? It's something that works in a fan hack of the game more than the real deal. Ganondorf manages a neck grab because they cover it with magic effects.

Then, as an FPS character, he doesn't have an iconic look or any attributes that transfer well to so a side scrolling fighter. Personally, I just don't see how that character would resonate with a target audience or even be fun to play. We might as well say "Gordon Freeman for Smash" or "Isaac Clarke for Smash" since it fits in about the same amount. For me, Snake already hits the borders of the game's limits in those ways, and more importantly Smash Bros. doesn't need a ton of "generic space soldier" guys. There's already too many "Fire Emblem swordsmans" as it is, even though I like them all.

Months ago on reddit, I saw some discussion on the idea of Doomguy/Doomslayer/Doom Marine being added and someone said he would be better as a guest character in an upcoming Mortal Kombat game, due to the type of game that Doom is. If you think about it, that fit makes a ton more sense since you don't want to tone down Doomguy but you can't just show him snapping Pikachu's neck after plugging Little Mac with lead.

Having said all that, it seems like Nintendo isn't as concerned about maintaining the vibe/concept direction of the Smash Bros. franchise these days (due to some of the DLC characters), so maybe you'll get your wish. For me, I just don't think it would be good ENOUGH to make it worth them doing, though it would be a really cool Final Smash for him to go FPS on the stage and blast everyone kind of like the way you initiate the Dragoon.

Min Min is a cute, but Twintell has "dat ass" going for her.  I do think an ARMS rep would be great though.  Also, we need Wonder Red from Wonderful 101.  That's a great game.  A Splatoon rep was on my list as well, but they're in now so that fixes that.

I think Twintelle is my favourite character design in the game, but they're always going to go with the iconic character/fan favourite of the franchise so it would likely be Ribbon Girl first and foremost (but I'd hope that the other characters could be costume changes/echo fighters).

Wonder Red would fit into Smash Bros. really well, but if we're going down that aesthetic route I'd prefer Viewtiful Joe much more. Regardless, it's actually stupid they haven't included at least one of those two.

I'd second Ganon. I don't think I ever even thought of that before. Though I like both the OOT and the original Ganon. But hell, if we can have both Young Link and Toon Link, I guess I've no problem with having both of them.

I'm already sold on Smash, it looks awesome. As to whether I'll actually play it is another thing.

The Ganon idea is interesting. I think we'll only ever see him as a Final Smash fro Ganondorf. If they DID do him as a separate character then they would likely have to decrease his size, in a similar way they've done to Ridley. I have to wait and see when I get the game, but I don't feel like Ridley is going to be much fun, and I would worry about that with LTTP pig Ganon even though I definitely prefer that design over the one we get in Smash Bros.

Unfortunately I don't think we could have blue pig man be an alternate costume for Ganondorf, since LTTP Ganon uses a different weapon and I can't imagine him doing all those flippy air kicks.

Pig Ganon was never a huge ass colossus until the same OoT that decided to go with Gannondork over Ganon.  So really, no he can easily be Bowser size and be just fine and inline with what he actually is.

Yeah I suppose that's true. And they can fudge it a bit, since Bowser's size relationship with Mario has certainly been inconsistent.

The game needs more of those dumpy bigs. King Dedede was a great addition to Bowser and Donkey Kong, but I never thought Charizard really was and I'm not convinced on Ridley yet. Guys like pig Ganon and King K. Rool really should already be in there.

Today is a direct, so hopefully we will get some characters revealed.  Also apparently a thing happened which leaked another character, if you don't want to know who it is then DON'T click on the spoiler.

[spoiler]So apparently someone at Nintendo dun #####ed up and accidently leaked a character via youtube.  They posted another music song but with the wrong title...




Bloody Tears/Monster Dance


It's happening.  We Captain N The Game Master:  The Game now[/spoiler]

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HOLY #####!

That Central Highway Remix.

ZERO IS AN ASSIST TROPHY!

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SIMON BELMONT AND #####ING KING.K ROLL ANNOUNCED!!!!

BEST ROSTER EVER

10/10 ROSTER

They definitely justified calling it "Ultimate"

Looks to be the best Smash yet. I'm very pleased we were talking about King K. Rool earlier in this thread.

The two Belmonts made me smile a mile wide.  K. Rool is cool too.  Honestly, after both Ridley and K. Rool I really can't believe they didn't add Waluigi.  Dark Samus is lame, but Prime is ##### so anything coming from it is as well.  SA-X was infinitely better.

The game is suppose to have 900 music tracks?  That's going to be awesome.  Especially with new Castlevania remixes and some new Mega Man remixes.

Really, this game continues to blow past expectations.

*Disliking Metroid Prime*

NOW HOLD ON THERE!

Pausing the video halfway through to reflect on how I find myself wondering what Nintendo would be like if Sakurai was the director (or at least had some form of directorial influence) of all of Nintendo's multiplayer properties. Possible exception of Splatoon and ARMS which I haven't played yet. He seems to really get what people want out of the games, which is choice. I don't understand for the life of me why I can't switch weapons in MK8 deluxe, why I'm forced to have time limits in local battle mode and all that. Whereas in Smash I have more choices than I would ever care to tinker with.

I'm impressed by all of the content but I'm starting to get really curious if a single game cartridge can possibly hold all of it.

Isn't SA-X just Samus (in appearance) with freak eyes? I dunno how you "echo" that. Dark Samus may not be as interesting but the stark visual contrast (in colour and in stance) in the context of Smash, I think, works better.
After having played Prime I find that the main thing I dislike about it is the fact that so many bosses and enemies are just bullet sponges. Which works for me in 2D Metroid but feels awkward in 3D when you land what appears to be a critical shot and the enemy doesn't even flinch. Maybe I'm remembering something wrong, though; it's certainly been a while. I just know that the fights, especially many of the bosses, felt like a huge grind.

You know what I think might be driving up the amount of playables and why they're not being relegated to DLC this time around? I feel like there's no uncertainty at this point, from Nintendo or anyone, that they're going to make a KILLING on amiibo sales. My sense is that they have carte blanche in the character department.

When I saw Zero I thought he was playable. His animation looked like a regular fighter, haha.

But holy ##### this game's roster is amazing. There's only maybe like a handful a characters I would possibly add at this point.

Now all they need to do is announce a Story Mode or Adventure type mode and I'd probably never play an older Smash game again.

Captain N the Gamemaster mode.  It needs to happen.

For me, Prime wasn't BAD it just wasn't Metroid. It could have been called anything, there wasn't a Metroid feel to it. It's influence on the rest of the series is what leaves distaste, as now the Metroid and Prime games are inextricable from each other.

Anyway I'm definitely having all the characters on screen at once instead of using that echo fighter switching thing. I don't really care about what makes a character a "real" character or an echo, to me their all just their characters either way, so I like the idea of seeing all my options.

Now all they need to do is announce a Story Mode or Adventure type mode and I'd probably never play an older Smash game again.

I'm really hoping for the same.

Possible exception of Splatoon and ARMS which I haven't played yet.

Splatoon is mint. The fanbase has pretty much gotten everything they've asked for. The only stuff missing is probably a few weird Nintendo redundancies like the voice chat fiasco and not being able to play as a team with your friends outside of ranked mode. Those really aren't big deals to the general fanbase.

Honestly, after both Ridley and K. Rool I really can't believe they didn't add Waluigi.

I'm still so surprised anyone actually likes Waluigi that I haven't begun to understand people wanting him in the game. Or maybe it's just a meme. But I don't see the appeal at all.

My hopes for X have gone up significantly.

I know X is part of Mega Man's final smash, but Chorm is part of Robin's final smash.  And now Chorm is playable as an echo fighter.

Seeing Zero and hearing that #####ing sweet Central Highway remix give me hope.

X wouldn't be a good echo fighter because he's considerably different size and shape wise from Mega Man's Smash model.  Given he at least has a model already since he's in the final smash does give a head start on resources for him though.  Though honestly, if we get another Mega Man rep, I'd prefer Zero, Roll, or Tron, just for different play style and less cloneishness.

Who said he'd have to be an echo fighter?

His moves would be based on his weapons and many would differ.

Standard:  Buster Shots > Ray Splasher
Tilts:  Soul Body, Shining Ray, Ground Hunter
Smashes:  Spinning Blade, Storm Tornado, Triad Thunder
Dash:  Tornado Fang
Grab:  Strike Chain
Throws:  Splash Laser, Silk Shot, Rising Fire, Spin Wheel
Air Attacks:  Frost Tower, Boomerang Cutter (Melee), Twin Slasher, Double Cyclone, Metal Anchor
Specials:  X-Buster, Shotgun Ice, Speed Burner, Rolling Shield
Final Smash:  Nova Strike

I think more 3rd parties from the same series would just be echo fighters, so the closest would be Proto Man or Bass. And yeah, they're in Mega Man's Final Smash but they can easily be removed when they're being played.

People are expecting Shadow to be Sonic's echo fighter, so maybe we'll one for Mega Man too. Though while I would love to have X playable, he's probably unlikely.

Still, I really thought Zero was being confirmed as playable when he showed up and spoke. Such a tease, like Bomberman.

I'm just glad Ashley was deconfirmed.  Her fanbase is pretty toxic. 

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Roll a clone of Mega Man in Marvel Vs. Capcom? I know she was different in Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom, but they might use MvC as a reason to make her an echo fighter of Mega Man. I'd be fine with that.

I'd be down with that.

More Roll is always good.

As far as other  Echo fighters go, I think Funky Kong would be a great addition for DK considering Dong Freeze had him playable. 

Shadow will probably be an Echo for Sonic.

Naw, Metal Sonic requires even LESS work to do.

I like to play as green Mega Man and pretend it's Quint.

Literally no one I've played with has ever known what I'm talking about when I say that.

Dong Freeze

NO THANK YOU.

All kidding aside, it's a crime that Dixie Kong isn't a fighter yet. Her helicopter hair alone fits in well to the Smash gameplay (a powered down but faster version of Donkey Kong's aerial spin?) and the more female characters the better. I'd want her to be a full character/semi-clone, since an echo of Diddy wouldn't work 100%. She can whip her hair back and forth (whip her hair back and forth) for most of her moves: Her grab looking very similar to how she picks up barrels, you just could also maybe control the hair like Simon Belmont's whip/Sheik's chain. There's a lot there to work with to make a dynamic fighter with Dixie.

Plus... She starred in at least 3 of the 5 mainline DKC games and was the TITLE protagonist of DKC3. She should have more clout than Funky at this point even if they dissed her and dismissed her in DKC Returns.

Dixie's fine too.  But K.Rool needed to be in first and foremost. 

And Green Mega Man should be Captain N Mega Man.  His taunts should be "Mega *Insert sentence here*

If you LIKE Captain N, then yea sure. Me, I like Mega Man II.

But yeah, I agree K. Rool first. I'd just prefer Dixie over Funky at this point--and I didn't think there could be anyone cooler than Funky Kong when I was a kid.

I'm just stoked that we have Simon, Pit, and Mega Man.  IN THE SAME #####ING GAME

This is glory of Nu Smash.

All life begins and ends with Nu Smash.

Since Chrom is an Echo fighter of Roy, but has one of Ike's moves (his Up B, Aether), its very possible for Dixie to be an Echo fighter who is still technically unique from Diddy or DK because she borrows certain things instead of one full moveset.

Still need to know if Chrom is part of Robin's final smash.  If so, then this gives X hope.

And X does NOT have to be an echo fighter.

He doesn't, but he may very well be. His special weappns would have to altered to X series weapons at least, and then he'd be a taller Mega Man clone with more power probably.

Metal Blade => Boomerang Cutter
Rush Coil => Upward Air Dash
Crash Bomb => Ho(r)ming Torpedo
Leaf Shield => Yammar Option

Personally, I would prefer Proto Man as an echo of Mega Man as he does play similarly but slightly different from Mega Man in 9 and 10.

Here is a detailed moveset I came up with for X

Standard attack:  Punch, Punch, Buster Thrust
Standard Hold/Rapid:  Ray Splasher

F-Tilt:  Soul Body
U-Tilt:  Shining Ray
D-Tilt:  Ground Hunter

F-Smash:  Spinning Blade Charged Variant
U-Smash:  Storm Tornado Charged Variant
D-Smash:  Triad Thunder Charged Variant

Dash Attack:  Tornado Fang

Grab:  Strike Chain (Tether Recovery)
Grab Attack:  Buster Shots
F-Throw:  Splash Laster
B-Throw:  Silk Shot
U-Throw:  Rising Fire
D-Throw:  Spin Wheel

Neutral Air:  Frost Tower
F-Air:  Z-Saber
B-Air:  Twin Slasher
U-Air:  Wing Spiral
D-Air:  Metal Anchor (Meteor Effect)

Neutral Special:  X-Buster (X3)  Fires weak shots when pressed, charge to fire stronger shots.  At full power, it fires 2 shots.  1:  A slow moving projectile that is weak in power, but can bypass super armor and priority to interrupt any attack and 2:  A fast moving powerful shot.  If the 2 shots intersect, it becomes the super powerful cross over buster.  Charges can be saved.

Side Special:  Shotgun Ice:  Freezes opponents at high damage.  Charge to create a moving platform and gains speed and power as it slides.  Can act as a platform in the air that slowly descends.  Charge can be saved

Up Special:  Air Dash (X3)  X can dash in the air twice. 

Down Special:  Rolling Shield:  Fires a slow moving projectile.  Charged up creates a barrier that protects X from attack.  Will reflect projectiles once, then disappear.  Press again while barrier is in effect to fire it off.  Charge can be saved.

Final Smash:  X4-X6 Nova Strike

Only 1 of X's specials can be charge saved at a time. 

Colors/Variants:  Like Little Mac he has 16 choices.  8 are colors and the other 8 are his various armors (First, Second, Third, Fourth, Falcon, Blade, Glide, Shadow)

I mistook Ray Splasher as Splash Ray from X7 and was like "why would that be a rapid fire weapon? Neon Tiger's is bet- oh."

I would assume X's Nova Strike would be an instant KO but be easy to dodge if done carelessly.

It's similar to Marth/Roy/Lucina's critical hit.  If it his, your KO'd

Since Chrom is an Echo fighter of Roy, but has one of Ike's moves (his Up B, Aether), its very possible for Dixie to be an Echo fighter who is still technically unique from Diddy or DK because she borrows certain things instead of one full moveset.

Then I think I'm missing what an "echo" actually is vs. a unique character. Personally I don't really care about the stipulation in the first place but if you can have an "echo fighter" that actually have different moves then I REALLY don't see the point of marking them as such.

Is the only reason we have this category of fighters so that we can clean up the character selection screen a bit? Because I'm just gonna switch it to the mode where everyone has their own box anyway.

I just take every excuse to use Nintendo's messaging. It makes me feel hip.

I guess at this point echo fighters are just fighters that are similar and not entirely unique?

I'll wait until I see the character screen in its entirety before I decide which I would choose, I think, but I think that was pretty much the purpose: make everything appear concise.

It's just interesting how people argue over whether a character should be an echo or not, haha.

Small news update.

According to an article on famitsu, Both Castlevania & Mega Man are getting alot of new remixes this time around.

More X music?  Yes please.

I think they should stick with classic since it's Classic Mega Man.

Why can't we have both?

Because until X is announced as a fighter, the only MM characters and stages are from Classic Mega Man (outside of the final smash cameo). I'm not against it but I'm still with Rez on this, smarter to keep it classic.

Just my opinion but it's not the same as having different Zelda tracks even though Link is the BOTW version, since that's still the same series. The X and Classic series have a completely different methodology to them.

I'm happy with X series music both in the unlikely hope that X will become playable, and because it seems that the people who don't want the X music could simply turn it off. One of the reasons I'm a fan of all the customization settings.

Why can't we have both?

Because I feel like X and classic are completely different in tone and style that it makes no sense to have X (or Zero or BN or Legends) music playing for wholly classic material.

Flash Man Remix :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ovj8l2LeLA

I mean, I like MM2 as much as the next guy, but it'd be nice to see more remixes from other games. We have a few from 1 and 3... and now one from 4... but at this rate every theme from 2 will be remixed before we get anything from 5-10.

i feel like zero as an assist was a complete waste,

he should have been a full on fight with the possible echo of protoman.exe
and megaman.exe could have been an echo for normal megaman

I feel like Mega Man echoes would work better if they were Proto Man or Roll. X could maybe work if he was based on Mega Man but not fully an echo. Similar to Isabelle and Villager.

Zero would've been sweet, but maybe next time.

i feel like zero as an assist was a complete waste,

he should have been a full on fight with the possible echo of protoman.exe
and megaman.exe could have been an echo for normal megaman

While X series Zero would be nice, I would want X to be playable first before Zero gets in.

I know it's a stretch but We still don't know if Robin's final smash is the same or not.  I say this because Chrom is now playable and was originally part of Robin's final smash.  If Robin's fianl smash IS the same, then this holds out hope that other characters that are part of another's final smash could be playable as well.

Technically Fox is part of Falco's final smash and visa versa.  Also if you really want to grasp for straws, Samus is part of Zero Suit Samus's final smash even though they are the same person.

While I do think Zero would work great in Smash Bros. and be a lot of fun, the last thing we need is another sword user.

Then take out 4 or the 9 Fire Emblem people.

only have 2, one we already have and another being an axe user because WE WANT SWORDS THAT ARE NOT FIRE EMBLEM!

It would be nice if the FE reps used more than Swords. Even Robin, being more magic focused, still uses a sword. In their games, Ike could use an axe, Chrom and Lucina could use lances.

Zero, while being a sword user, would still have some different possible moves, such as his Buster, his Lance from X7/8, or even the random weapons from the Zero series, as much as I hate MMZ. Just as long as Zero uses his X series design, I wouldn't mind it too much...

Robin is a special case because the sword is a form of magic and you can't use it the entire time. While not the best of the FE fighters, Robin is probably my favourite (or close to) FE addition because of the actual difference in gameplay.

I'm an FE fan so I would love if instead of some FE characters, like possibly Ike (even though his moveset is different from the general Marth-clone) we got someone like Hector, who uses an axe. Or god forbid someone who uses a TOME or BOW. But if we're being honest they only add the very huge and titular characters from the franchise. Chrom seems like a poor addition already because Lucina fills both the role of wielding the falchion and being the representative from FE: Awakening ALONG WITH Robin. There is no point adding him in, he's not even really promoting the game now. In general, any time they pull a main character from a fantasy game this will probably be an issue. The whole genre seems scared of having the main character be anything other than a glorified knight.

I don't know, I've thought a lot about the Smash Bros. franchise's character issues since Smash 4, especially when they had write-in ballots for fighters. Bear with me here... I don't think it's about removing past characters, the problem is they keep adding swordsmiths when they shouldn't. To that effect, I'm not saying Zero wouldn't be a good addition; He'd be fantastic. He would have a wholly unique moveset, art syle, nostalgia, everything that makes a good Smash character. The problem is they put Shulk in the game, which was the perfect Zero slot.

To my chagrin, Corrin exemplifies NONE of the traits of a good Smash character like Zero would, and is only there to promote a very bad Fire Emblem game. Corrin is possibly the worst aesthetic design in FE: Fates, let along being yet another boring sword user. Corrin is probably the lone character I'd actually suggest removing from Smash Bros.

Obviously the whole idea behind Smash Bros. Ultimate having every character ever is to stop all the bitching that happens when characters get taken out. To a degree, I support that; Once a character is entered into the game I don't much reason to take them out. Especially with the ability to now have echo fighters, I think it's fun to have all the options like SNK vs. Capcom 2 did. Something I don't like about the Street Fighter series is they consistently introduce new characters then bin them, but keep the same core SF2 ones intact 'cause the game is apparently only successful for that reason. I think the problem of balancing out what kinds of characters we get should always be tackled at the ADDITION stage.

I would tell Nintendo not to worry about removing characters, just be smarter with adding them in the first place. We're done adding Fire Emblem characters to Smash Bros. for a while. Go through your ballot e-mails and take my Dig Dug suggestion, already.

Today's the final direct.  Hopefully we will find out the last remaining characters.  If certian leaks hold water we could be getting one of the best rosters ever. 

It's already the best roster the series has ever had by default.

Guts Man Theme Conformed
We're The Robots Confirmed
Dr.Wily Assist Trophy!

Love that the adventure mode looks like a whole game on it's own. Incineroar looks like a ton of fun.


Edit: Looks like Guts Man and Wily are also spirits, which operate very differently from assist trophies. It's similar to how stickers used to work, I guess. Gravity Man is apparently one of the masters you can train spirits with.

Air Man, Cut Man, Wood Man, Skull Man, Metal Man, Galaxy Man, Dr.Wily, Zero, Gravity man, and Sigma are spirits.

That's way more than I expected and unfortunately my boy Shadow Man still isn't there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un44CDKDqIY

Robin's final smash is the exact same!

X has a chance baby!

People are treating that as a big deal signifier, as if the game doesn't already support scenarios like Samus beating up Samus.

Also, at this point X would be DLC since the direct confirmed that all base-game characters have been revealed.

Update

Fire Man Theme confirmed via special stream, it's hard to make out but around the 3:00 mark you can hear it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=246&v=sGii7f2IhD8

Fire Man, Bass, Sword Man are sprits.  It's possible Sword man may also have music as well.

Still so sign of X as a spirit

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Mikero, Shadow man is a spirit at the 5:49 mark. 

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Tron Bonne & Alie (Model X) are also spirits.

I'm really glad it seems like single player modes aren't being neglected this time. Smash 4 got boring pretty fast when your friends weren't around to play...

Adventure mode being back is great. And Spirits look like they can be pretty interesting. Like better versions of Stickers from Brawl. I'll miss trophies, but if they were sacrificed to put in all the other content in this game, I'm fine with that.

Overall, I think the roster is great. 76 characters including echoes. That's pretty ridiculous. My only disappointment was Isaac being brought back only to be an Assist Trophy again, but aside from that, the roster itself is pretty solid.

It's so hard to get friends over to play Smash these days too, that single player mode is more important than ever. As a kid I was fine with plowing through everything to get to Master Hand over and over on N64, but I need a little more now.

Mikero, Shadow man is a spirit at the 5:49 mark.

Hell yeah, now I know what'll be on every playthrough I do.

As silly as it may sound I think I really enjoyed collecting trophies in Smash. But it seems like the spirits are just trophies with some functionality that happens to not involve developing a bunch of 3D models.
The single player looks like something I will appreciate.

I'm not sure X will be DLC if he would count as an echo, but if he really is absent as a spirit then that's kind of interesting.

X wouldn't be an echo.  Just use different weapons for his moves.

Ex:  Grab is Strike Chain.  Throws are Silk Shot, Splash Laser, Rising Fire, and Spin Wheel.  Dash is Tornado Fang, Smashes are X-Buster, Shining Ray, and Triad Thunder, Air attacks are Frost Tower, Z-Saber, Sonic Slider, Wing Spiral, Metal Anchor.  Tilts are Ray Splasher, Thunder Dancer, and Ground Hunter.  Specials are Boomerang Cutter, Shotgun Ice, Storm Tornado, and Rolling Shield.

This is fun to think of. What about:


Up Tilt: Dragon Punch. Like Mega Man, he does a nice SF uppercut.
Down Tilt: Not sure on this one, open to suggestions but I kind of think it should be a simple move rather than an actual special weapon.
Forward Tilt: Buster. Same thing as Mega Man except it does damage (but lower fire rate).
Neutral Attack: Buster lemons.

Dash Attack: This one's obvious. Instead of Top Spin, X will dash here (even if X doesn't visibly have the boot upgrade ;) ). Comparable distance and damage can be done with this move, but with an added bonus to get a longer jump distance out of it.

Up Smash: Sonic Slider. A quick smash attack will give you only 2 blades, but charged you'll get the full lot to rain down in the area around you.
Down Smash: Ground fire. Two fireballs arc away from X, and land away from him (you could his character model between him and the fire) and burn on the ground for a short time.
Forward Smash: Charged buster. Same idea as Mega Man more or less with small differences.

Up Aerial: Storm Tornado. Similar to Mega Man's current moveset, the vertical tornado is an excellent way to push an enemy out of the screen.
Down Aerial: Triad Thunder (charged shot version). In air this is similar to Link's down+A sword stab, but with a small AOE earthquake. Similar to Donkey Kong's slap but less area. When hitting the ground a couple electric balls trace out in each direction (imagine a small version of the hothead item).
Forward Aerial: Similar to Mega Man, but it's the X-Saber instead (or Z-saber, whatever).
Neutral Aerial: Get a little fancy with this one instead, you can shoot buster shots in any of 8 directions at the dash rate.

Up Special: Ice Burst (the charged dash version). You can move vertically or horizontally (quick direction change after hitting the input) through the air but not diagonally. The icicles that fly out can freeze enemies in a block of ice (an effect already in the games) if they have high damage %. Not a popular one of X's moves, but very useable for recovering AND attacking in a Smash Bros game.
Down Special: Rolling Shield (charged). Similar to Leaf Shield, of course.
Forward Special: Hardest for me to pin down, I'm leaning toward a lot from X1 to be honest.
Neutral Special: Chameleon Sting but each laser can bounce once off a wall.

Grab: Silk Shot, can pull them in at a small distance.

Final Smash: Giga Attack? Maybe Nova Strike but on a massive level we've never seen before.

For a little extra fun, let X do a small hadouken ONLY if you do the actual SF2 inputs for it.

X can wall jump at an easier rate than other characters.

I believe this can work as an acceptable echo fighter of Mega Man while still feeling like a whole character. Now someone else do the floor and edge attacks, I'm tired.

Nice, but may I suggest Speed Burner as an alternate Up Special?  Either or work well.

As far as forward special, maybe Magnet Mine (You can control it slightly while it's moving similar to Snake's Side B but only it's vertical position)

Neutral Special could also be his X-Buster but have it function X3 style where if you make both shots connect it creates a powerful blast.

Other alternatives for Forward Smash:  Spinning Blade Charged, Frost Shield Charged
Forward tilt:  Fire Wave

I just looked a few other proposed X movesets online, a lot of people seem to forget how essential the buster is as a character trait for X. In that sense, I'd be weary of changing the forward tilt away from buster shots since the neutral and forward tilts for most characters should be a generic move they can do and nothing too special.

I could definitely see Fire Wave as a working down tilt though, I personally like when downward moves have a bit of crowd control to them.

What's good about newer Smash games is the customization options, so X could definitely have some alternate specials too (if they add custom specials options). Spinning Blade could be a really good forward smash but also a good forward or neutral special like Mega Man's Metal Blade.

Looking at this X build idea again, it really inhabits the grey area between and echo fighter and a regular fighter... Kind of why I think X would be fine as an echo is that most of the "best" moves to use, when you apply them to the actual in-game inputs, don't really stray far from Mega Man's SSB4 moveset.

It seems political to a lot of fans but I don't think there's anything wrong about a character being an echo fighter. I get the impression that people think it's like an insult that a character is an "echo" instead of a "full" character but in the end I'm just gonna display all fighters separately anyway.

The whole echo fighter thing gets a little murkier when you consider how "clone" characters have evolved. Characters that are straight up clones (even with slightly different attributes) are now echo fighters, but some characters that were originally clones (Ganondorf, Falco) have been tweaked enough they are no longer clones.

Dr. Mario is a good example because his clone status in Melee was oft debated by fans--even though he had totally different physics in every move. He was removed from Brawl because he was deemed a clone, and now here he is in SSBU as a full fledged fighter.

So while Falco in Ultimate isn't an echo-fighter, I see X in a similar role to Falco in Melee; He's basically the same as Mega Man but with slightly altered move effects and hit boxes. Many of his animations don't even need much altering, but even so that's a minimal task at this point (as evidenced by custom moves being available in SSB4). The explicit point of echos being that they have nearly the same animations but can still have different hitboxes and physics.

This build of X would be debateable if it's an echo or not, kind of depends on your view of Falco's Melee version I guess.

I've never had issues with clones as long as they made sense. Even when Ganondorf was a Captain Falcon clone it was silly but I still enjoyed it anyway.

And seeing echoes like Chrom and Ken, I don't think it's even fair to consider them clones since they are still pretty unique in their own right. Wolf was considered a clone in Brawl just because he shared some stuff with Fox... same with Lucas.

And clones can make me love a moveset too. I hated playing Fox in Melee, but loved Falco.

Yeah, I always hated when people said Wolf was a clone, his specials are only visually based on Fox's but he is VERY different in play style overall.

Snake Man is a spirit as well. 

I'm assuming that many of the Primary spirits are going to have music tracks dedicated to them, which means it's possible Snake Man will have his own music theme in Smash.

Also Tron Bonne so we will be probably get another remix of the Flutter vs the Gleclshaft (or however you spell it...)

---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpdOEyAfWBE

You can hear the full Mega Man 4 Medley here. 

It's Dive Man/Skull Man/Drill Man

"Hear it" is generous.  You can barely make it out over the noise/talking.

I agree that X wouldn't have to be an echo, but he'd still be seen as in a gray area at best. It's harder to justify selling him as DLC to people if you hold the position that you intend to develop all of the new DLC characters from scratch. They've set the expectation, and even the very shallow appearance of going against that expectation could upset people.

Perhaps Nintendo would simply release an explanation alongside his announcement, trusting that he's different enough to be acceptable.

There's a lot Nintendo may yet do to surprise people, so just to be clear I'm not saying it's a bad idea, or that I'm against it. I'm just saying it would be a surprise.

^ Very true. Their statement on DLC characters alone makes X unlikely (for the first batch).

Ice Man, Dive Man, Megaman.EXE, Geo Stellar, Wily Capsule 7, Slash Man are spirits.

Tronn Bonne's spirit battle is Wendy O Koopa with 2 acompannying Mini R.O.Bs.

---

Wind Man is a spirit discovered in Japanese Overview video.  

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Top Man & Spark Man are also spirits in various vids.

---

Oh god.

The music dropped.  It is #####ING GLORIOUS

[spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZQFaE1LGZg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuK6U8WFy3s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atNKynanov0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUh5qDGj4-k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld_kuK9N9vE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYI6Rzy6O54

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8mbIH9S6iY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FprgTpqnMTE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NXGLPI49Ig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHJAy0n9OGs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGqHlTbf7hM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vaGUTKCTWQ

And the only theme that really #####ing matters....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDm9n_gTnBo[/spoiler]

I do really like all the new tracks Mega Man has gotten so far... however...

[Spoiler]Mega Man 6, 7, 8 and 10 getting no love was a bit sad... and then Zero and Star Force get a track in but not Legends or Battle Network? Odd choice... still, overall the remixes are amazing. I love that we got so many Mega Man songs this time.

Meanwhile, Sonic has no new remixes and Final Fantasy still only has TWO tracks total. Guess Sega and Square Enix are at fault for it...[/spoiler]

Donkey Kong got remixes that aren't Jugnle Level this time around.  Still a shame no remixes from Tropical Freeze, or any songs from Tropical Freeze in general.  Still they did the new remixes that were there justice.

[spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gjlD-vMFW0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zC6qJpBkcI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq64OIoyhgo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6JTuRu700w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYGY56kO7VQ[/spoiler]

What track was from Star Force or Zero?

I think it was in the datamine, but after seeing all the music uploads, it must've been removed. That or they're just ports of the original tracks from the games for some reason.

But apparently it was the MMZ version of Zero's theme from X1 and the title theme of SF1.

Mega Man apparently has the most remixes in Smash Ultimate with 17.  Add the 6 from Wii U/3DS and Mega Man has 23 remixed songs total.

Castlevania has about 13 and Fire Emblem with 10.

They should've given Mega Man a 2nd stage, because it's a bit of a waste to have all those songs play on only one stage.

For me, every remix will be at 100% for Wily Castle.

What other stage would you use for Mega Man that isn't from X, Zero, Legends, BN, SF, or ZX?  Wily's Castle seems to make the most sense.

Frankly, outside of the X1 Highway or maybe the Gesselshaft air battle, X, Zero, BN, SF or Legends really don't have any really iconic stuff like Wily's Castle.  Though you could just pick a random robot master or cyber scape stage or island with airships in the bg for a second stage if you really wanted to.

Only ideas I had were maybe the inside of Wily's Castle, or Dr. Light's Lab.

Or one of those changing stages that would switch between different Robot Master Stages or something. They could have the transitions be like the Legacy Collection Challenge modes.

X1 Opening Stage would be sweet too, though. We already have the theme remixed after all.

If X was DLC then I'd gladly take the Highway.

But I have to say his theme in Ultimate is awesome.  One of the best new tracks next to SMB2 Ground Theme, Crocodile Cacophony & Gangplank Galleon

on top of the megaman 2 title screen building maybe?

I thought of that too but it might feel too similar to the Wily Castle Stage, especially since the Smash Bros. Version is at night.

Then again, we also have a few similar city building stages with Pokémon's Saffron City Stage and EarthBound's Fourside Stage.

Either way, I'm sure they'd be able to come up with an interesting stage idea.

Robot Museum might not be a bad idea.  Maybe they can utilize something where if you attack the glass surrounding the robot master displays, they break and they will come to life and aid the person who freed them from their display.

That's not a terrible idea, actually.

Huh, the Robot Museum would actually be really interesting without feeling too gimmicky. Plus, we'd actually get some Mega Man 7 remixes...

I'm really into that idea. I'm sure they'd balance it so you can't just rush to get the RM's help and over power right away. It would be like SSB4 Ridley.

After playing for quite a bit I can confirm some of the music that I wasn't so sure on:

There are ports of songs from a few series that weren't in Smash 4. The first one you'll notice is Flash in the Dark (Wily Stage 1) from Mega Man 9. Next is Theme of Zero ported straight from Mega Man Zero, which in itself is a remix of Zero's X1 theme. I also unlocked Shooting Star, which is Mega Man Star Force's main theme. This one specifically was SF1's title theme.

I also heard X5's X vs Zero theme play in World of Light when fighting a Ganondorf with Sigma's Spirit.

No themes from Legends, Battle Network, or ZX that I know of.

Finally unlocked Mega Man in World of Light also. It takes a little while but at least he's somewhat early on compared to some other characters.

This game is a lot of fun. I need more time to get into it but so far I think it beats Smash 4.

Sakurai did Mega Man right with the new music. 

Snake Man and We're The Robot's are #####ing beautiful to hear and of course Central Highway is awesome as well. 

Fire Man's remix was banging hard.

Doing World Of Light Now

My go to characters are DK, Jigglypuff, and Mega Man.  Though Link's pretty good for that mode.

Some of the spirits are friggin hell though...

Come back to them when you're stronger.

Mario is honestly a beast in this game, I love it.

There hasn't been a spirit where I gave up on yet in WoL.  Most of the hard ones  I've gotten out of the way. 

To be honest I basically play most of them until I win, but that's not really how you're meant to do it. It's clear that if you're fighting something with a power of 13000 and you can only muster up 8000 that you should really come back later.

Stat's don't mean anything if you play smarter than the AI

Yeah... That would only stand to reason in levels with normal parameters or even just a single buffed enemy, but overall you're missing (or skipping) the point of what I'm saying. There are some fights where you have 4 buffed opponents that are on a team and you can't even really damage them unless your spirits are strong enough, and obviously that's what I'm talking about.

I've always been very good at this series, and have been able to power through every challenge in this game mode through trial and error but the game is clearly designed to have you return to those stages when you're stronger. That's just a fact.

The more difficult ones I had to return to were the Rayman spirit (Sonic & assist trophy), Jeff spirit (3-4 Inklings), and the Dr. Wily spirit (8 MegaMan & Dr. Mario) simply because I wasn't at an appropriate level to take them on, and thus they swept the floor with me.


I ended up enhancing a couple spirits that gave a "lifeheal" ability, like the Nightmare spirit, which was especially useful for some of the stamina challenges.

And that's the thing too, everyone takes their own path through the map so certain fights are more challenging to different people. The one I'm having trouble with right now is the poison floor timed stamina battle with Zero suit Samus (who gains defence once at medium health). It has about 6000 more power than my max spirits. But just because of the path I took, I was able to power through those ones Teelio mentioned. I don't think I have a lifeheal spirit yet, I should take a look!

The Jeff Spirit battle was super awful, as was the Funky Kong one too. I had to give up on Jeff for a bit before trying again.

A lot of them are fun but there a few that are just aggravating or designed really poorly, even after having really good spirits, though it might be just be me since I'm not too great at Smash...

Jeff spirit is cheese.

Full Armor X + Made Of Metal + Donkey Kong + Go to Edge + Bait + Back Throw = VICTORY!!!

I'm basically swimming in Jeff Spirits.

Enchancing X before that fight sort of proves my point that they want you to come with a strong spirit for some of the stages no matter what.

I don't have X as a spirit yet unfortunately, but I was able to get through Jeff's spirit battle somehow (I'm sure a Franklin Badge was involved). I need to play a lot more.

A lot of them are fun but there a few that are just aggravating or designed really poorly, even after having really good spirits, though it might be just be me since I'm not too great at Smash...

Nah, I totally agree. Some of them are really fun and then they through you ones that are broken under the guise of "challenging". The thing is that something challenging is a lot of fun if you're only losing because of skill (like a Dark Souls game) instead of just cheapness. I like this game mode but there are some stages that are just bad.

Finished & 100%'d World of Light

It was nice but I think I would have preferred a more extensive version of subspace but with more enemy variety like Smash Run.

Basically Subspace & Smash Run Combined.